Finding Your Secret Sauce & Use MAP Pricing for Growth
November 8, 2023
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Featuring Guest: Chase Ballard
Director of Wellness, Detwiler's Farm Market
Categories: Business Growth, Pricing Strategies
Tags: customer experience, customer feedback, differentiation
Podcast Episode Description
Follow Chase Ballard:
Is MAP pricing the cost of entry for natural products companies?
What if you could unlock the secrets to a thriving business in the natural products industry? We sat down with industry veteran, Chase Ballard, who spilled the beans on his decade-long journey. He shared invaluable nuggets that will help you stand out in a crowded market. Chase emphasizes the magic of staying true to your passion, embracing your unique selling proposition, and the power of crafting a business that’s both resilient and a community leader.
MAP Pricing Strategy
Chase isn’t shy about tackling the nitty-gritty details of the retail world. He draws a clear path for managing pricing so customers always get the best value. Chase shares everything from the intricacies of MAP pricing (Minimum Advertised Price) policies to charging ‘admission fees’ to your store. He also explores the potential of extra services like community partnerships and memberships to cover overhead costs.
We further take a deep dive into the world of promotions and partnerships. Chase imparts wisdom on finding the right pricing strategy, forging effective partnerships, and using promotional items to keep your customers hooked. The retail sector often faces unique challenges, and Chase gives his own practical solutions to staffing issues and enhancing customer experiences. Don’t miss out on learning his quick-win strategies and his expert advice on how to stock your store. Get ready to transform your retail business with these golden insights!
Resources
Hedgehog concept – Good to Great by Jim Collins – Chapter 5
✉️ Email Chase
⬇️ Grab your FREE Marketing Quick Wins and find out how to increase your revenue in the next 30 days.
Guest Bio
Chase has over 10 years in the natural products industry and has run operations for 3 different retailers. He started out in sports nutrition nad fell in love with learning how you can heal your body with food and supplements.
Chase is passionate about investing in others and seeing them grow, finding people help on their wellness journey.
He is the co-founder of Natural Products Insider, holding supplement companies accountable to MAP pricing and ethical business practices. He loves helping retailers understand and overcome challenges with non-compliant companies in today’s ever-changing environment.
Full Show Transcript
Chase BallardGuest00:00
Because, yeah, we all think we have the best products, we all think we’ve got the best staff and we tell you, yeah, we train our staff. But you got to believe that you’re in the mirror and say is our store really worth six bucks to come into? Welcome to the Natural Products Marketer podcast. I’m Tina.
Amanda BallardCo-host00:20
And I’m Amanda and we’re here to make marketing easier for natural products businesses, so you can reach more people and change more lives. Hey guys. Welcome back to the podcast Today.
Tina SmithCo-host00:29
we are with Chase Ballard, our special guest today, extra special to me. He’s my husband so happy to have him here. So if you are not familiar with who Chase is, he’s been in the natural products industry for going on 10, 12 years, something like that. It’s been a while so he definitely knows what he’s doing. So he definitely knows his stuff and, yeah, we’re just going to pick his brain about different things related to kind of finding your secret sauce in the industry as a retailer and what that looks like. One of the things that I always like to ask is most people don’t think about being in the natural products industry when they grow up. So when did you decide this was the industry for you? What makes you so passionate about staying in it?
Chase BallardGuest01:23
Yeah, I know I’m passionate about the industry because I was very unhealthy growing up and then I saw a family member go through some health struggles and it kind of woke me up to maybe I need to start taking control over my health and kind of can’t just eat anything you want to see and not suffer any consequences. So really started diving into that through weight loss and stuff, started in the sports nutrition side of the industry and then really just fell in love with learning how you can heal your body with food and supplements and then just investing in others and seeing them grow and getting to help people and getting to see people come to you for help and getting those relationships formed. It’s just a dink thing really and it’s a fun part of the industry.
Tina SmithCo-host02:14
Yeah, I think we can all align with that. We feel really strongly about helping people find their way to help through natural products and foods, so that sounds very like the same of the rest of our stories as well. So, all right, so now why we’re here. Yeah, you’ve been with three different retailers now, all of them very different. So, as you kind of led these organizations, how do you kind of determine what your secret to success is going to be with each company, because everyone’s different, and so for our listeners, no two businesses are the exact same. So how do you kind of figure out what’s going to work well for you and what can be what sets you apart from your competition?
Chase BallardGuest03:04
Yeah, you really have to just start with running your business. I mean, that’s the thing is, don’t really look so much at what everybody else is doing. What do you want to do? What’s important to you? What are you passionate about? What’s going to excite you?
03:18
And then in turn, what’s going to excite your customers? But the biggest thing is you’ve got to look at what you’re doing well. What are you really strong at? I’m not just doing well, what are you great at? What’s your best thing you bring to the table as a business for your customers and your community?
03:36
You can look into the hedgehog concept. That’s covered in good degree and other business things, but it’s kind of what do you do better than anybody else? What’s the one thing that you’re the best in the world at? At least? If you’re not best in the world, you’ve got to be best in your community at least, or up there. What you want to do is you want to focus in on that and then build around that with other three to four core principles that you can be very good at as well. And that’s when you do want to start looking at competition and say, ok, how can we do something better than the person down the street? How can we do this better than them? And if you can’t do it better, it’s not that you don’t try, but you find other competitive advantages to lean into. And again it goes back to what are you passionate about and what do you want to serve your customers with?
04:23
For example, one company I was at. We were very big on kind of staying up to date, cutting edge with science. We had a lot of people drive. Some people would drive for an hour or two, three hours to come talk to us and our practitioners and get advice from us, and really came to us for the new products and whatnot. So having new cutting edge products, having a knowledgeable staff, those were some more core features. Pricing wasn’t that important. It was important but it wasn’t our top thing. Transitioning to another company pricing was our top thing and so we want to make sure we had the very best pricing and we still had a knowledgeable staff. But that wasn’t what we leaned everything into. So really you got to find that one core thing that you can do best in your community out and then build around that with a strong foundation.
05:18
You can’t be everything to everybody. You have to kind of pick what you want to be and then lean into that really heavy. And if you can do that one thing great and bulletproof yourself by being the best in your community. If that one thing, it’s hard for you to lose. But you got to stay sharp on your game in a lot of different areas as well.
Tina SmithCo-host05:37
OK, so that just brings up for me. A lot of people don’t realize that they do something special because it just comes in naturally to them. So how would you suggest figuring out what it is? That is your thing that you do better than anyone else.
Chase BallardGuest05:53
Yeah, and that’s where I opened up with. That is what gets you excited when, as business owners, when you think back why you started the business, there had to be some entrepreneurial fire that just had you going, that really made you want to do this. And I would hone back into that, find that route and build around that, because that’s what got you excited. One thing that keeps me going in the industry, for example, is one of the first very big things. I remember being so upset when I found out that companies would do what’s called fairy dusting or they’d put a little bit of turmeric in something and say oh, it’s good for information.
06:34
So something that’s always driving me is I am very big on making, not having formulas that aren’t efficacious in my stores, so that’s something that’s very important to me. So you could say, if I started my own business, maybe only having the top product quality or no BS products or whatever, that would be something very passionate to me. But that’s one of the things that really got me passionate about the industry. So, really, just finding what got you passionate. It could be different things for so many different people in this industry. So people could just be investing in their community.
07:07
Some people it is more the oh, I love analyzing blood work and helping people have better health Like, OK, then maybe you lean more into that clinician side. Maybe it’s just you had dietary issues growing up and you want to have healthier diet options for people. Well, maybe you lean more into the food side and maybe have more dietetic services. So it’s more of those things. What got you passionate and what got you excited and leaning into those things? Because I forget the exact quote and stuff, but there’s something about them. The heart of the operator is the success of the business and if you’re the operator and you’re not excited about what you’re doing, it’s not going to work.
Tina SmithCo-host07:49
Yeah, I love that, chase, and one of the things that we talk about as well. In helping you identify that, you absolutely have to be passionate about it. And what is what do your customers see that no one else sees in you? So a lot of times you can just look at Google reviews and see what’s repetitive over and over again the nicest people who know what they’re talking about, or couldn’t lose weight until I came here. If those are the things that are repeating over and over again in your reviews, or if you ask customers, what do you think makes us different than anyone else, I mean, just that one question can really help you see what makes you different than other people, because a lot of people think I do this, it comes naturally, everyone must be doing it and it’s just not true. So it’s great to have that customer feedback as well.
08:37
Yeah, yeah, and I think, with the state of the internet, I think a lot of people and this is something that you’re super knowledgeable about price got to be such a big issue five to seven years ago with kind of the Amazon boom, especially in the supplement side of things, and I think a lot of people struggled with that if price wasn’t their thing. Trying to figure out this balance between well, maybe I’m more service-based, but I still have supplements, but Amazon’s undercutting me all of that kind of stuff. So how do you balance? Maybe, if you are more service-based or customer-experience-based, how do you kind of keep price in line? What are some things that you would offer some advice to people on, where maybe price isn’t their number one thing, but you still have to be price competitive.
Chase BallardGuest09:35
MAP Pricing
Yeah, in this industry I don’t think you have to be the best price, but you have to be close. You know you can’t be. The days of selling at MSRP are long gone. If you’re still doing that, I don’t know how you’re in business, but congrats on that. I guess. But the days of MSRP are long gone. Most map pricing policies and for what? People don’t know that. It has its minimum advertised price, but really that definition doesn’t do it justice to this. More so the price that Amazon is going to be selling at for the most part, or what your e-tailers are going to be selling at. E-tailers are starting to get smart and figuring out ways around that a little bit, but for the most part if you’re selling a round map or at map pricing, which I recommend.
10:20
I actually recommend selling the low map pricing on promotional items. But anyways, if you’re not doing that, you need to definitely start considering, because you do need to be price competitive. I think you have to be price competitive because ask yourself if you go to any retailer and say you went and bought a I don’t know, say actually, I remember we were in the market for a baby stroller once and we went and bought it at I don’t know I think it was Target and got home and Amazon was like $40 cheaper to buy the same stroller and I was like wow, we kind of felt like we were ripped off and it was like man, should we have what this, this thinks? Same things happen to your customer. If they get home and they’re they just bought, you know, a $40 item from you and they get home and with the way the internet works, it’s going to know what they bought somehow, I don’t know, but that’s going to pop up in their Amazon feed eventually and it might be $15 cheaper. They’re going to feel like you ripped them off and maybe it was just that one item in your store potentially, but they’re going to think that’s the same thing with every item in your store, and that’s not an image you want.
11:28
The way I look at map pricing, though, or the way I look at pricing and price competitiveness if you’re not super competitive on pricing, you know you kind of have to look at it as an admission fee into your store, and what I mean by that is so in the wellness industry, people typically buy, let’s say, two, three items a pop. Let’s just say two items for a easy math, but say you’re about, you’re not at math, but you’re. You know you’re close. You’re $3 more expensive than the map pricing. That’s not too bad per item. Two, three dollars is maybe what? 10% over map pricing, five, 10%. So let’s just do quick math You’re $3 over map pricing on the two items they were going to buy. So that’s $6 in total on their purchase. That you’re more expensive than Amazon. So what you’re basically saying is it’s a $6 admission fee to your store. So that’s the way I envision map pricing is. You have an employee standing outside taking a $6 ticket from people to get into your store. That’s fine If your store is worth coming there for $6, if it’s not, well, you’re probably losing customers or you’re probably not having people want to come back to your store after finding that out.
12:40
Some stores that are very service oriented and very you know, have great staff, they have great knowledge, they have great selection, they spend time with customers, they have phenomenal services. Sure, that might be worth it to most people. But if you don’t offer any of those things or you and that’s where you gotta be really honest with yourself Because, yeah, we all think we have the best products and we all think we’ve got the best staff and we go, yeah, we train our staff, but you gotta really look in the mirror and say, is our store really worth six bucks to come into? That’s only if someone’s getting two products and that’s if you’re close to a map pricing. If you’re not anywhere near a map pricing, you might be charging someone $20 in your store. Even for the best stores, that’s a tough swing. You just have to start looking at like that, what’s going to excite your customers? That’s the big thing. What excites your customers? It’s the way everything is right now.
13:39
Retail experiences are not, they’re not convenience anymore. For the most people, amazon is the king of convenience. For me, to go into a retail center, it’s. I’m choosing to do that because I want an experience, I want a interaction with someone or I want to learn more, I want to. There’s something I’m wanting. There’s that experience factor, and if you’re not delivering on that experience, then I’m out. So you’ve really got to start leaning into that and making sure that you have an experience that is worth admission. And if you’re selling that map, you don’t have to worry about that because it’s like hey, the prices that we have, they’re saying you’re going to get on Amazon, so we’re here to help you, and for free, basically. But yeah, I think that admission thing, when I started looking at that, that really opened my eyes to seeing it’s all about the experience and then B, the price competitiveness is worth the price of admission.
Tina SmithCo-host14:41
Well, my question to that cheese is does that mean in order to sort of cover your overhead around having a store or having the employees that are helpful and all the training that you have to do? Are there other services that maybe you want to bolt onto that where you do charge a premium, and can that help you make up that overhead? Yeah, you can.
Chase BallardGuest15:02
And that’s where you have to kind of, you really have to make sure that you’re offering quality services and things like that. But no, they’re definitely.
15:11
I’ve seen people doing partnership things where they’ll partner with community people and kind of sort of charge like a I don’t know what you would call it, but well, membership of hey, you get a membership to us. You get a membership to the person on the street kind of doing different things. You get one free trio freeze. You get one. You know like kind of a you know a sampling of different wellness services in the area. You can do things like that. You can have you can block off time with some of your staff where they have dedicated consultant time. You can lean into a lot of different things. You could lean into more promo options to where they’re having you know a sign up for this and we’ll give you exclusive coupons, exclusive deals, so you can kind of start retaining some of that. But honestly, for the most part you can get by sell with the way most companies are. You know, seven years ago that was a very good I mean, that was a very pressing question. But now most companies understand map is almost a prerequisite to have a foot in this industry. Now, and I’m very thankful for that the work to not just me but a lot of people have done in forcing companies to do that Most vendors that you carry. You can sell out or around map. If you work hard and have a good purchaser, you will be able to make the money you need.
16:31
The days of making, you know, 50, 60, 70% margin those are gone for the most part. And that’s where we do have to be smarter business people and make some better decisions. And but you know, I think that’s a good thing to do you should be able to still make do with what you need if you run a smart business. That’s not. It’s easier said than done, but you know. But you should be able to make that reality. That is where you do need to get clever with bolting on things. And I don’t have all those answers, obviously, that that starts to go to. You don’t want us to get quick with bolting on things. It’s wide of lines. Well, you know. You know you’re not going to be able to do that. You want to aligns well with our core business.
17:19
What was the thing that goes well with that hedgehog concept that we were talking about? What’s that thing that we’re best in the world out? We’re best in our community. We’re best in our community, that hedgehog thing, that best in the community area. That’s why people are coming to you. So you wanna continue to bolster on things that feed into that. And so if you can find those things, of course, do it. And those things you can charge a premium for if you need to, because they’re already coming to you for that. They’re not gonna get anywhere else. So you should not monopolize that, but you should take advantage of that fact about you.
17:56
You’ve gotta be careful to make sure you don’t do all that too soon.
18:01
If you’re still buying the business for example, if you’re not already known in your community as the place to go for X well, if you start saying, well, hey, we’re gonna charge you this and this and this and this to do things people will start being like, eh, is it worth it?
18:19
What’s your reputation? You’ve got to kind of there’s a saying that a person I really like is you buy the market, so sometimes you have to invest to buy the market. So before you start charging premiums and stuff, you’ve got to say, hey, we’re gonna come out and we’re gonna offer the service, and until people really, really like it, you kind of get them hooked, I guess, and then start saying, hey, for us to continue doing this service, we’ve now got to start charging a fee and you start with a fee and then you see what people will accept and you come out with a fee. If people still pay for it, then you know that you’ve got something working. If people say no and vote with their dollars, then you know okay, maybe it’s not as valuable as we think it is.
Tina SmithCo-host19:01
So yeah, that’s great. And then I’m curious about you talked about promo items that sometimes you do below map for that. How do you make those decisions? What are the levers that you’re pulling there that keep that profitable for you?
Chase BallardGuest19:16
It goes back into getting people excited, and that’s something that’s very core. Part of my passion is to keep people excited or kind of exceed expectations. So we sell, for example, to come in with now. We sell everything at map price every day. There may be a few things that are slightly over, maybe 5% or something like that, just because it’s hard to stay up to date on all the products. But what we like to do is we like to run pretty significant promotions on top of that, where people, when they come into our stores, they’re usually checking their phone three or four times, not for a better price, but to almost figuring out how it was Amazon ripping me off, and that’s a really fun.
20:03
I get kind of a high off of seeing people’s face every time that happens. So, but no, the way you wanna do it is you’ve gotta work with your vendors, you have to make partnerships, you have to come to them with ideas, and so many times talking to vendors about these ideas that I have, they say man, it’s a breath of fresh air just hearing someone that has an idea. Typically, sadly, a lot of companies just they take the line drive. Sometimes they don’t even pass it on, and a line drive is where you just get a further discount than you typically do for a month or so and a lot of people don’t even pass it on or they don’t pass it on significantly enough, they don’t do anything fun with it.
20:45
They get promotional dollars from companies but they’re not creative and you have to think outside of the box. And again it goes back to what’s exciting, your customers. I mean that’s where we wanna say what’s exciting people. So just selling a map that just means you’re the same price as Amazon, well, everybody shops on Amazon for the most part. I mean that’s not really saying much. I don’t think that’s a huge, or at least I don’t feel super proud saying, hey, we’re the same price you should get at home. Oh, okay, yay, good for you, like that’s. So I mean that’s where having a promotion on top of map saying, hey, we’re, go ahead and look at the phone, I don’t care. Like you’re gonna see that we’re significantly cheaper, and they do. That’s where they’re faced with. It’s funny. Never do we get a question in our store of, hey, this is cheaper on Amazon. But at least once a day the customer comes up to us hey, do you guys know? This is a lot, you guys are a lot cheaper than Amazon.
21:44
Like kind of worried about our business. Like, are you guys know? You don’t? This is kind of crazy. Like, yeah, no, no, that’s what we do here. And they’re like, wow, that’s amazing, I’m just gonna keep shopping with you guys now.
21:53
So again, does everybody do that? No, but our core principle for our company right now is pricing. But we’re also a new wellness retailer, so we’re buying the market. So price is our biggest thing. 10, 15, 20 years from now, when people only come to us in the area for products, will we have to be as aggressive on promotional? Probably not, but we’ll probably have the ability to do it and be fine because we bought the market. So again, it depends on the business strategy you’re in. If you’re a, if you have people coming an hour to see you, to talk to you for 30 minutes, do you have to run these crazy promos? Probably not. You probably do them fine just as you are. But that’s what you just gotta ask yourself If you’re not having people excited, get them excited, and you gotta figure out how that works and just try different things.
Tina SmithCo-host22:46
So, chase, in your experience have you found that if you’re wanting to get creative with some of these promotions, that brands are willing to work with you on that and let you kind of, especially if this is a first time thing for you where you’re like, hey, I wanna do this crazy Bogo free deal. We’ve never done anything like that. You know brands typically willing to work with you on things like that.
Chase BallardGuest23:13
Yeah, no, I mean, it’s hard for me to take my experience with brands and transpose that to what other people would experience because I have built that partnership with these brands over time. So whenever I come to a brand if I haven’t ever done it with a brand they are much more hesitant. But you know they. Usually most brands are willing to take a shot on you at least once. So I’ve said you know no one. Rarely do I ever get told no, but some brands are more hesitant but they’re willing to give you a chance and sometimes you. Sometimes again it goes back to if you feel really passionate, don’t let someone tell you no. That’s where I get frustrated at times with some of the entrepreneurial spirit of some business people because they’re like well, this brand doesn’t do this for me and this brand doesn’t do this for me. It’s like you run your business If a brand’s not working for you, you can find another brand. I mean and that’s a key part that every wellness vendor needs to, or what wellness retailer needs to realize is going back to kind of the Amazon thing is, people do not come to your store for a product and if they do, close your business, turn in the key to make as much money as you can right now, because the reason people come to your store is for you and hopefully you haven’t forgotten that. So make sure that you’re finding products and brands that work for you and what you want to do for your business. So if a brand keeps telling you no and you keep complaining about this brand that isn’t doing something for you right then get them out of your store and just tell your customers we didn’t see eye to eye business wise. If you’re still in the early stage or if you’re struggling right now. I know that’s not easy. I’m not saying you can do that right away, but you need to be aiming to get to that process.
25:14
For example, back in the map days. We I call them the map days, but back when map was a very big concerning thing natural vitality, calm Still don’t have a great map, I don’t think. But I think it’s kind of a lot better that in the early days you could literally buy their stuff on Amazon cheaper than you could buy it through distribution. And we sent them letters. We tried, you know, contact them. We need support here. We’re not going to be able to keep carrying your products. Never.
25:41
Nothing changed. We were just one little retailer, no big deal. They didn’t care. So we got their products and we brought in a similar magnesium citrate and said hey, you know our customers would come in asking for calm. We said, hey, listen, we just didn’t see eye to eye business wise, great product. We’ve got this other product we think is just as good. We trust it and we think you should give it a shot. We’ve had a good price on it.
26:05
And then people bought it and said, ok, cool, if you recommend it, we want it. And that was where you know. That’s where I really started to realize people aren’t coming for a product, they’re coming for us. And that again goes back to people. If people are choosing to walk in your store, they’re coming for you. They may not want to talk to you every day, but they’re coming because they value the service you offer. There are so many companies out there that make good quality products. Find them. What’s the partner with you? Now? Yes, there are some brands that are very important to have for the most part, but there’s not, there’s very few, that are absolutely about. There’s a lot of competition out there, and competition is healthy in that if you say, hey, well, if you don’t do it, we’re going to catch you and we’re bringing in a brand that will do it.
Tina SmithCo-host26:50
They’ll usually listen, so I’m curious when you’re talking about this working with brands and asking them to help you have a promotion you talked about building relationships with them and that’s how you’re able to get them to negotiate a little bit with you and then maybe introducing this idea to a new brand. But, other than building the relationship, what do you think if they say yes at least once, which you mentioned they might what do you need to show them in order for them to continue saying yes?
Chase BallardGuest27:24
Show them that you’re trustworthy.
27:26
That’s the biggest thing, I think. Show them that you’re. You know you mean what you say and you’re going to do what you say. I think that’s the biggest thing. So when you say you’re going to put it on in cap, put it on in cap. Send them a picture, show them statistics behind what happened on the in cap, even if it didn’t work out. Say, hey, it didn’t work. You know, I thought it was really going to work. It didn’t work, that’s okay.
27:51
I think just being honest with people and being honest with you know I’ve apologized to a lot of brands and they say, hey, it’s okay. We actually, you know, work better than we thought it would, so we’ll try it again. But just be honest, I don’t know, it’s kind of just my general status quo of how I like to do business, but I think I’ve seen a lot of people see that as refreshing and I don’t know how other buyers operate, but I get the feeling that sometimes some brands out there are not taking advantage of it. But the message I get is they feel hesitant to pull trigger on ideas because things aren’t always honored fully through and things are Well. Hey, yeah, we’re going to people. Look at co-op funds, for example, the co-ops, where the brand will partner with you on advertising. And hey, you know, yeah, we have 10 stores. It’s going to cost you know two grand 2,500 to get an in-cap at our companies. You know that’s X and Y is the amount of foot traffic, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Vegas sound really nice and charge you know a pretty penny and then they put it on in-cap and they don’t even really place a PO. They just put what’s overstocked from the back room and then caps it like trash.
29:11
And if I was a company, I spent money for that and I walked into the store and I’m like this is what we got. I wouldn’t want to spend money with retailers either. So I think it’s just saying, hey, listen, like, partner with me, trust me, I’m going to need to buy X amount of units. And that’s the thing. Tell them what you’re going to do. Like don’t just say, hey, I need 10% off because I want to sell. It’s like I need 10% off or I need it at this price. I’m going to need to probably buy, you know, 400 units. Here’s what I want to do. You know, I want to do logo free. You know, just take a chance on this. You know you want to do whatever you want to do.
29:47
Brands are willing to partner with you guys, if they, yeah, no, they’re just willing to because the brands realize that without brick and mortar retailers, the industry is in trouble. So I mean they, they’re just as worried about business as business as brick and mortar owners are. They’re worried about this channel surviving. And I used to be very pessimistic about this channel but I’ve been feeling more and more confident as time goes on. But we’ve gotten a lot of life rafts and I think I think the life rafts have been very helpful because people have started waking up. But we had the life draft of the CBD craze that really helped a lot of businesses out. And then COVID was the second life raft that really pushed people into our stores.
30:34
Those were, I mean, that was four years kind of through the map, amazon kind of time where you could start if you were smart about business and started getting your ducks in a row. You had about four years of a buffer zone of saying we’ve got to get things back in order, like we’ve got to start figuring out who we are, what’s our future, what’s our business plan. We can’t just turn the open, sign on and expect people to come in anymore. So people had four years of that and before that you can even say Garcinia Cambodia, so maybe six years of that, but still in the Dr Oz years. But you’ve had time to kind of get your ducks in a row and hopefully people have, but I’ve seen a lot of people doing that, so that that excites me.
Tina SmithCo-host31:17
If we put a formula together for communicating with some of these brands and manufacturers, then it sounds like it would probably be like put a plan together, tell them what you want and what you’re going to do, then show your work, just like math and school. Then you actually put the promo together, show them what it looks like, show them the advertisements or whatever you’re doing around that. And then the third piece is to show your results good or bad, because and along those lines if I were a budding person these people want to run marketing tests all the time and they don’t necessarily, they’re not able to do that necessarily without cooperation from retailers. So you are a test and even if it doesn’t go as well as you thought or that they thought, it gives them data to tell them what works and what doesn’t. And so then you come up with a new creative plan that they might be able to test again and they get more data. So it sounds like that’s sort of a three step formula Start with a plan, show your work and then show the results.
Chase BallardGuest32:21
Yeah, and that’s the thing too, that’s the beauty of it is. Say you have no idea. Say you say there’s not a Coming up with the motion on is isn’t your forte, okay, that’s fine. Sign up for the. Sign up for all the flyers in your area. Sign up for other flyers. People aren’t here.
32:40
Anytime someone and ask reps you have a rep talk comes to you. Say what are other people doing that successful like? Be honest, be humble and say listen, we’re, we’re trying to really increase cells. We’re really wanting to see, you know, cells turn around. We’re wanting to have fun running exciting customers. What are you seeing other brands do or other companies do? How do they do that when most of the time they’re gonna tell you what exact? Because they want increased cells, cells too.
33:08
You know there may be things. Again, you have to. Everything needs to go through your filter if it doesn’t align with our business. So don’t just do any in everything a rep recommends. Again, you’re running your business, not them. You need to run your business to make sure it aligns to you, all you’re doing. But get those ideas from them. They’re more than willing to give you ideas. I’d say you know, probably only 30 percent, 20 percent, or great ideas that I’ve heard or that align with what I want to do, but they’re out there and so I mean, yeah, they’re there and then what do you do to Sort of make it more possible for things to be a success when you put this plan together?
Tina SmithCo-host33:52
and then what marketing Tactics are you doing to draw people to that promo?
Chase BallardGuest33:57
It’s easy for the stores. I’m at now because we’re a store within a store for the most part, and so we already have a lot of foot traffic. The hardest thing to do is get people in the store, and that I don’t have all the answers for that question. But a marketing campaign of some sort is is definitely vital. You know, if that’s either you know getting a sign in your parking lot outside near the interstate saying Huge sale. You know, limited time, bogey free on X items, or something you know.
34:30
I don’t know if that’s the answer. I don’t know if it’s an email campaign for me what it is buying a ton of product and stacking it high and so Invest in the product, to kind of build it and they will come type mentality. But you know we we have huge in caps, like we’re gonna have a sale, make it a big deal, make it overflowing, so it looks like you’re invested in this product as well. You know it’s gonna be good because you thought into it. You know don’t just do a sale and put a tag on the shelf. My goodness, that’s not gonna work. So you have to make it a big deal as best you can, and so if you only have one in cap in your store, get a sign for outside your door and say, hey, huge sell right now on X item. You’ve got to make noise. I mean, just start making noise. So I don’t know how exactly you make noise, but make noise, and but only if I can give you to make noise every again.
Tina SmithCo-host35:28
Yeah, I think it’ll depend on each store, right? You know, each store has their own unique identity and the ways in which they do things. Some, you know, might have a great social media presence and that’s, you know, a great way for them to promote things. Other people might have, you know, 300 followers on Facebook. That’s probably not gonna do much for you, so come up with other ways to promote those things. Emails fantastic, you know, anything in store to make Make the products kind of stand out amongst you know, because most, most, most health food stores are having thousands of Tiny bottles on the shelves. So it’s like, you know, if you have only one item in this whole row that’s on sale, make it pop out. Yeah, I love that advice, like make it big, make a lot of noise, because if it, if it looks exactly like everything else, it’s in the store when you walk in, or your email campaigns are just the same, or it’s just another ad to come into the store and that’s probably not gonna get you anywhere with your promo.
Chase BallardGuest36:28
Yeah, no, exactly. And the other thing on top of that too, I would say is Ask your staff. I mean, you know, lean on your staff, but bring them into the process. Hey guys, this is a huge sell. How can we, how can we excite people in the community about this and they probably have ideas you haven’t thought of and what you also Do to fold with that as you excite them about the promotion and you kind of have them take ownership too, and that’s gonna also help increase that turnaround as well.
Tina SmithCo-host36:58
Okay, so to keep up with and be ready for what’s next in this industry. What are you reading? Who do you listen to you, what are you watching and who are you following?
Chase BallardGuest37:08
For keeping up with what’s next in the industry. Honestly, not much I’m not very good at, I see. I mean I do keep up with, I try and see any new product that comes out. I’m not very impressed with what is coming out. So for me, honestly, I just kind of keep an eye out there. I feel like I have a pretty good tune. I guilt my staff and ask them hey guys, what are y’all hearing asked for? What are things that you are seeing? Have a very good communication with the people, boots on the ground where they’re telling me here’s what people are wanting. But no, really it’s just kind of looking at what’s coming in and if it’s crap, I tell the people it’s crap and and a lot of stuff right now is crap.
Tina SmithCo-host37:51
So so when you say you’re keeping up with new products, is there a place you’re going for that or are you just Getting things from the brand because they know that you guys do wellness?
Chase BallardGuest38:00
Yeah, no, getting stuff from the brand. I mean expos and conventions are great for that, but most of the time Email I mean every day I’m getting emails of you know probably 20 items a day of here’s something new, stuff like that, and there’s about us. There’s a convention almost every quarter and going one of those usually Does enough for me.
Tina SmithCo-host38:25
Okay, so what do you think most people in the natural products industry wish they could change about marketing what I wish we could do Was have a more interactive marketing experience.
Chase BallardGuest38:37
Something I’ve always envied of Some of the Taylor companies is More of that customizable care Approach to where, if someone knew if we could, if I could send out something, or if my marketing Could have a fish hook, that was more hey, we can help you on a customized level and we have knowledge to do those things and almost have an interactive like what are the things that are ailing you, what are the concerns you have, and doing that in a good way. That looks good. It’s works. On the back end. There’s not a lot of Employee time or costs that goes into, but some sort of AI, if you will. That’s the hot term right now.
39:20
But there was some kind of chat GPT that we could get to do our wellness plan algorithm. That would be something I would really be excited about. But I think that’s something that I feel is missing in wellness marketing, especially on the, the, the independent level, because there are some sites out there that are very trendy that do just that. They usually don’t offer good quality and they’re usually not affordable. So I don’t think they’re good services, but they have a very good platform to Offer that customizable care, because I think that’s something that everybody really wants is they want to know I am being taken care of and they I’m not just another number, and so that’s a customizable experience and kind of that.
Tina SmithCo-host40:05
You know, with your health, it can be intimidating for people to go into a health food store and be, you know, like, hey, I have, you know, all these symptoms and I don’t know what the heck is going on in my body, and that could be a really uncomfortable Conversation.
40:19
So I think that is why a lot of those eat commerce brands are doing really well where it’s like Okay, I’ll just take this quiz in the comfort of my own home and you know, someone will be seeing this, I don’t know who or if it’s just you know Coated in where it you know you answer X, y and Z question a certain way and it’s like here you go, here’s your suggestions. I Think that eliminates a lot of the awkwardness which I think are having a much more harder time with that, just being vulnerable in person and that’s just a whole nother conversation. But but I think that that would be nice to be able to then take that into a store. And then it’s like okay, I’ve maybe answered some of those awkward, uncomfortable questions ahead of time and then it spit out this plan for me. Can you provide me more assistance along the way?
Chase BallardGuest41:09
Yeah, yeah. No, that way you’ve already kind of broken the what a broken the ice. Online and not in person, so it’s not as awkward. Yeah, but that’s what I think is missing in Independent wellness marketing.
Tina SmithCo-host41:23
That’s really cool. I just think about things like people want to take personality tests all the time and then it tells them like things they can work on and that would be really cool if you could have that for, and help them, wellness too.
Chase BallardGuest41:35
So well, I’m sure you two together, y’all can do something.
Tina SmithCo-host41:40
Well, I am my wills turning All right. So what’s the single biggest decision you feel like has led to your success in the wellness natural products industry?
Chase BallardGuest41:53
Yeah, I think it was coming to the realization that Customers don’t shop wellness for the products. They shop it for the people. They shop it for the relationships, they shop it for the people who are the listening gears that want to help them, the the, the knowledge they do have, even though we’re not perfect, but it’s if they come for the people and when you can realize that, when you can hone your business into that and it’s very freeing and you have the ability to tell a brand Sorry, something I worked out anymore for us and you don’t feel. You don’t feel like you’re just a vending machine for these brands. You are, you’re here to serve your customers. They’re your customers. They’re not the brand’s customers, they are the brand’s customers but through you and I think really Believing that and seeing it take fruit so quickly Confirmed in me a lot of it gave me a lot of confidence to stand out on some risky ledges.
42:58
To be fair, the companies that I’ve been with have already had Previous success and built those clientele’s to do that. So, again, if you’re not the place in your community where people come to you for that experience, you have other issues to figure out before you can just start telling brands no, all the time, because to an extent you do need those brands to help, partner and build you. But once you’ve got that customer trust and then you can start stepping out and you doing things your own way a little bit more. I don’t want to confuse that too much, but yeah.
Tina SmithCo-host43:39
So just that reiteration of find what makes you different, lean into it, make sure you’ve got the audience and then you can build your success around that. So what do you think the biggest challenges for this industry walking into the next three to five years? I know that you were talking about. You’ve had maybe four to six years, have a little bit of buffer, so what’s the biggest challenge? That’s coming our way?
Chase BallardGuest44:06
Biggest challenge is to make sure you have a good experience in store, make sure the experience is on par with the retailers that are out there doing a good job, but basically you have to have a good online experience as well. So it’s not just an in-store experience, but a good online experience. A good social media team, a good people out there finding new products and helping you make sure you are staying up to date. A good staff making sure they are providing top quality knowledge and care. But it’s just providing that good, just a clean story. A clean, organized story.
44:45
Not walking in the shelves look terrible, like things go a long way for people, but making sure that experience for people is something that people won’t repeat and, honestly, a lot of independent wellness or independence that I walk into in this channel. The store’s dingy, the lighting’s not good, the shelves look terrible. The staff are they friendly? Are they not? Are they eating a sandwich while they’re walking around and dropping lettuce everywhere, like a lot of these things aren’t hard, but it’s.
45:16
I’m seeing as a whole staffing has become a big challenge, because staff is getting harder and harder to find good people. I look around, though. Even at restaurant establishments I’ve noticed the quality of experience has gone down drastically even over the past few years, with all the staffing challenges and that’s more of those little things that up for people where it’s like, wow, I don’t know if I wanna come back here, and really it’s just making sure you have a good experience and I don’t think we lean heavy enough into that within as independence in this channel, because I don’t know why, but just yeah you gotta give people a reason to get off the couch.
45:58
Yeah, you have to, and that’s what concerns me.
46:01
It’s just are you giving this yeah, kind of the same thing we talked about with MAP and everything is are you giving the people a reason to come into your store?
46:07
And that’s what does concern me. With the advent of Amazon and as we talked about, some of these online people are trying to figure out this customized level of care, and you’re already kind of seeing it Like there may be a company come around that will do hey, we’ll do, just fill out this supplement webinar or supplement quiz and we will match you with a consultant that will meet with you for 15 minutes and provide you your exact nutrient. Like maybe that’s a business idea we need to do, but maybe that could be what hurts the industry drastically. Someone will come up with something, and that’s where we have to make sure we’re still enticing people for that in-person relationship and experience. And I don’t have all the answers on it, but that’s what concerns me is that, as technology increases, will we be able to keep the experience on par, which, making people want to come and experience what we have to offer?
Tina SmithCo-host47:12
So I’m really excited. Mike McCallowicz is coming out with a new book about hiring and employee engagement, and so exactly what you were talking about finding good people. He has a whole section in that book that’s gonna be dedicated to putting on workshops for things and then watching who is engaged in the information that you’re teaching, because they might be the exact people who would be willing to teach other people. So, especially when it comes to health and wellness, I think about that all the time. Stores are constantly putting on trainings or webinars or having webinars about specific supplements or health issues, and that could be a great way to find your next employee, so that could be really exciting. Okay, so low hanging fruit. What things do you think would give most people in the natural products industry quick wins in building their business today?
Chase BallardGuest48:06
Basically it would be start selling at more competitive pricing. That’s have to do that. Clean your store, have good lighting, have your shelves look presentable, stock your store. There’s so many. I’m seeing a lot of people that are just afraid to order and buy two, three months supply. You know we don’t want to do that, but if that means you’re not getting your shelves filled because you can’t make minimums for other items, then, just get stuff on your shelf.
48:37
Don’t just have one or two items on your shelf. Make it look like you’re in business. Those are easy, quick wins. Invest in your staff. Ask your staff what they want or what they, what ideas they have to succeed and push the business further. Show that you are listening to them. Those are quick, easy things you could do. Yeah, be price competitive. Engage with your staff, clean your store be easy stuff.
Tina SmithCo-host49:06
Well, it’s funny. Speaking of fruit, I went into a grocery store a couple of weeks ago and there was an Apple display and they had them all and it looked like an egg carton where each Apple was in its own individual spot, it had been picked through and I felt so bad about taking even just one Apple off the shelf because I was like, well, what if someone really really needed apples? And so, like, when you said, you know, put product on the shelf. It’s like if there’s more product, then you don’t feel bad about taking, you know, maybe the last one, because you know it’s just these subconscious things where, as a shopper, you’re like, oh, like they don’t really have much. Like, should I take this? Like did that happen?
Chase BallardGuest49:45
So we have a policy where we basically it’s know what everybody’s the last one or two, and so that’s our kind of. Our policy is like you know, my store or my department’s within a grocery store or a grocery store type business and it can be six o’clock at night and if there’s only two things of bread left they’re not saying you know well, it’s the end of the day. They’re saying bake more, get more, because no one’s gonna buy those two. Like who cares if we give away six loaves of food in the day, bake another 10 or 12, and we’ll sell probably eight and say you just let two sit there, no one’s gonna buy them. So it’s like get product going. Like you can’t have just stuff sitting, you can’t have empty stuff on your shelf. So get product, invest, invest in your business, and product is an important way to do it. So it’s vital that you have stuff to sell. So thank you so much.
Tina SmithCo-host50:38
Yeah, and you were talking about cleaning too, and I just can’t think of a worse idea than for someone to walk into a health and wellness store and for things still like dingy and dirty it. Just they totally clash those two ideas. If I’m thinking about my health and wellness, I’m also probably thinking about my clean body and the cleanliness of what I’m putting in there. So I can’t think of a worse clash. If you haven’t cleaned your store, please do that.
Chase BallardGuest51:09
Yes, it’s. Yeah, those are some quick, easy wins and some easier than others.
Tina SmithCo-host51:14
Okay, so any shout outs for vendors that you love working with in this industry.
Chase BallardGuest51:19
I think ancient nutrition has really been the easiest and most exciting to work with. Some other vendors that are fun to work with would be life seasons, that’s. They’re really fun. Love life seasons. They’re good to work with, they’re favorite as well, and they’re underrated. If people aren’t carrying life seasons, you need to be. Let’s see, garden of Life gets a bad rap but, yeah, fun to work with. I don’t know, but they’re always willing to listen and work with me, so I have to shout that out. They get a worse rap than they should. Let’s see who else Working with distributors is the worst. Don’t do that.
Tina SmithCo-host52:11
So thanks for being on the show, Chase. Now you joined me in the same room. Yeah, I’m a computer guy. So yeah, thank you so much. And if people wanna get in touch with you, what’s the best way that they can do that? Or do you want people to talk to you?
Chase BallardGuest52:28
No, my email address is fine which? Yeah but no, I’m more than I love talking to people. I love talking to people that wanna wanna grow their business and want to, yeah, figure out ways that they can change and grow. And I don’t know everything and I don’t, I’m not always right, so but I’m more than happy to talk to people. As long as you’re not on the west coast of Florida, I’ll talk to you all day long.
Tina SmithCo-host52:59
So experience sharing is welcome is what Chase is saying, and we will have his contact information in the show next. All right, thanks so much. We have loved having you here. I think it’s been a lot of great information and if we’ve learned anything today, it’s definitely been. Please clean your store. Yes, yes definitely.
Amanda BallardCo-host53:19
Thanks so much for listening to the Natural Products Marketer podcast. We hope you found this episode to be super helpful. Make sure you check out the show notes for any of those valuable resources that we mentioned on today’s episode.
Tina Smith
53:30
And, before you go, we would love for you to give us a review. Follow, like and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify, youtube or wherever you’re listening today, and make sure you join us for our next episode, where we give you more marketing tips so that you can reach more people and change more lives.